The following is an edited transcript of the Face the Nation interview with retired Lt. Col. William Swenson and retired Command Sergeant Major Matthew (Matt) Williams, aired May 24, 2026.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined by two Medal of Honor recipients, retired Command Sergeant Major Matt Williams and retired Lieutenant Colonel William Swenson. Both received the Medal of Honor for valor in Afghanistan. Thank you both for being here.
MATT WILLIAMS: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The Medal of Honor is described as embodying bravery, sacrifice, integrity and a deep love of country. What does it mean to you?
WILL SWENSON: Military service has a universal component: people sign up to serve the ideals the country represents, even at great personal risk. In our cases we did what our training and duty required. I think a lot of service members would have acted the same way in that moment. We did our jobs.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You really believe that anyone else would have done the same?
WILL SWENSON: I do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Matt, what does the honor mean to you?
MATT WILLIAMS: Will is right. The medal represents service, sacrifice and serving something bigger than yourself. We joined in a time of need—wars on multiple fronts—and each time we went out we relied on the people to our left and right. The medal also symbolizes many stories that never get told: people who showed valor and never came home, or whose deeds were never recorded. The award points to all those untold acts of heroism.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When you say “outside the wire,” what do you mean?
MATT WILLIAMS: Leaving the base—getting into vehicles or helicopters—meant you were going to face the enemy. You have to trust your training and the people beside you. That trust makes you effective in combat and in civic life: serving others and being part of something larger than yourself.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Both of you seemed headed toward other public-service roles before the military. Are you wired for service?
MATT WILLIAMS: In a way, yes. I wanted to be a police officer or FBI agent as a kid. My upbringing taught hard work, integrity and service. When you can do something bigger than yourself, you should. The military offers lessons that set you up for life, and I encourage young people to consider it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Will, you were on a path toward diplomacy before 9/11.
WILL SWENSON: 9/11 was transformational for my generation. Many who were already inclined to serve saw a moment to act—whether in the military, education, national parks or other service. Every generation has a moment like that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: This year marks 25 years since 9/11. Many 25-year-olds don’t remember it. How do you explain that galvanizing moment to them?
WILL SWENSON: Many young people today are serving without needing that galvanizing moment. Service is still a choice people make because they believe in something worth defending. Service isn’t only military; it can be community or civic engagement.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The military is a smaller share of the population now. Does that worry you?
WILL SWENSON: The portion of the population serving is smaller because warfare and force structure have changed. Still, those who serve carry a heavy burden. But service remains available in many forms across society.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is there still a unifying impulse toward service in a fractured country?
MATT WILLIAMS: I believe so. The country has challenges, but many young people still choose to serve because it’s the right thing to do. We can do better in the tone and rhetoric of public life, but there’s much to celebrate and protect. I tell people not necessarily to pick up a rifle, but to be citizens worthy of the service others give on their behalf—if everyone thought about that, it would change our mindset.
MARGARET BRENNAN: With Memorial Day coming, do you think of particular people you served with?
WILL SWENSON: Memorial Day is personal. I remember those who gave the ultimate sacrifice and their families. Their stories are part of our national story and must be remembered.
MATT WILLIAMS: Many people come to mind. One is Ron Shurer, a fellow Medal of Honor recipient and teammate who later served in the Secret Service. He died of cancer linked to exposures during deployments. Memorial Day is a time to pause and remember not only those lost in combat but those we’ve lost since.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When President Obama presented you the Medal, he said you remind us how the country can be at its best. Is it a burden to carry those expectations?
WILL SWENSON: War can bring out both the worst and the best in people. As recipients, we are ambassadors for others—those whose stories weren’t told, and those who didn’t come home. We wear the medal to represent service, not ourselves, and have a responsibility to tell and preserve those stories.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Does that make you feel you must stay in public life?
WILL SWENSON: Many of us continue to serve in different ways. Medal recipients come from many backgrounds and political views; our role is to live lives that reflect the values the medal represents.
MARGARET BRENNAN: President Trump praised your unyielding service. Is that a burden or a mission?
MATT WILLIAMS: It’s both a burden and a privilege. Most Medals of Honor are awarded posthumously, so being alive to receive it is extraordinary. Kyle Carpenter calls it a “beautiful burden,” and I agree—it’s a privilege to continue serving our country, recipients, and fellow service members.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan and the debate over the nation’s longest war remain contentious. How do you view the service and sacrifice there?
WILL SWENSON: We were asked to serve overseas to defend the nation. We did our jobs honorably, and some paid the ultimate price. That sacrifice should be treated with respect. The larger political questions—what objectives to pursue and how—are for elected leaders. Service members follow orders and execute the mission.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You told a colleague you felt confused when you left the Army. Yet do you want people to sign up now?
WILL SWENSON: The confusion isn’t about service itself—our role is clear: close with and destroy the enemy when called upon. Confusion comes when the nation is unsure about its objectives. Those are political decisions that must justify the sacrifices asked of service members.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Should we talk about the Afghanistan war more, even if it’s painful?
MATT WILLIAMS: Yes. We must talk, learn and debate what went right and wrong. My experiences made me a better husband, father and person. Combat is a crucible that teaches lessons you can’t learn elsewhere. If we learn and improve, the sacrifice has value; if not, we risk repeating mistakes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve said there’s a responsibility to the people left behind in Afghanistan. What did you mean?
WILL SWENSON: Ultimately, Afghans must decide their future. Our work and sacrifice, alongside Afghan partners and other agencies, showed a possible pathway. We demonstrated American resolve and offered an example; what they choose next is up to them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: As the nation approaches its 250th anniversary, what makes you optimistic?
WILL SWENSON: Politics often dominate the conversation, but daily life—children being born, communities growing, people pursuing dreams—shows progress. America remains imperfect but uniquely capable of evolving toward a more perfect union. That is reason for pride and optimism.
MATT WILLIAMS: I agree. Reflecting on our history shows how far we’ve come. Outside of politics, our communities, freedoms and opportunities are reasons to celebrate. Events marking the 250th offer a chance to be grateful and optimistic. I’d also encourage people to visit institutions like the National Medal of Honor Museum to learn and reflect.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Thank you both, and thank you for your service.
MATT WILLIAMS: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be back.